Hearing of the House Government Reform Committee - The Complex Task of Coordinating Contracts Amid Chaos: The Challenges of Rebuilding a Broken Iraq

Federal News Service

March 11, 2004 Thursday

HEADLINE: HEARING OF THE HOUSE GOVERNMENT REFORM COMMITTEE SUBJECT: THE COMPLEX TASK OF COORDINATING CONTRACTS AMID CHAOS: THE CHALLENGES OF REBUILDING A BROKEN IRAQ

CHAIRED BY: REPRESENTATIVE TOM DAVIS (R-VA)

WITNESSES: MAJOR GENERAL CARL A. STROCK, DIRECTOR OF CIVIL WORKS, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE; GENERAL PAUL J. KERN, COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY MATERIAL COMMAND, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE; MAJOR GENERAL WADE H. MCMANUS, JR., COMMANDING GENERAL, U.S. ARMY FIELD SUPPORT COMMAND, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE; TINA BALLARD, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY FOR POLICY AND PROCUREMENT, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE; LEWIS LUCKE, DEPUTY ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, UNITED STATES AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT; DOV S. ZAKHEIM, UNDER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE (COMPTROLLER) AND CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE; WILLIAM H. REED, DIRECTOR, DEFENSE CONTRACT AUDIT AGENCY, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE; REAR ADMIRAL DAVID NASH, USN (RET.), DIRECTOR, Iraq PROGRAM MANAGEMENT OFFICE, COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY

REP. TOM LANTOS (D-CA): Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me first express my respect and admiration for all of our military working and fighting in Iraq. I had the privilege of visiting both the Baghdad area and up in Mosul, and my respect and admiration is unbounded.

I'd like to change the subject, if I may, to an entirely new area. I think it's a new area. Under Saddam Hussein, one of the many restraints and restrictions of that despicable police state was on the rights of workers to organize and to be represented. I would be grateful if any of you ladies and gentlemen would tell me what we are doing with our contractors to ensure that in this new world we are attempting to create, workers' rights are respected and enforced.

MR. ZAKHEIM: Congressman, we'll look into that. As you know, there are a number of programs that we are working in conjunction with our partners at AID and State that fall under the rubric of governance that have to do with everything from the rule of law to setting up courts and so on, and we'll get you an answer for the record on that specific question.

REP. LANTOS: Well, I would hope we can do a little better than that, because you have been operating there now for almost a year. And I would be deeply disturbed if my question would be the first time the question of labor rights emerged in the context of spending billions and billions of American taxpayers' dollars employing Iraqi employees.

You want to say something?

MR. LUCKE: Yes, Congressman.

REP. LANTOS: Please.

MR. LUCKE: Thank you. I can tell you that we're very concerned about the rights of citizens and the participation, fuller participation of Iraqi citizens in their own governance. We have been involved in a-we've been financing an $167 million local governance contract that --

REP. LANTOS: I'm not asking about governance. I'm asking about workers' rights. One of the most objectionable aspects of a police state is that it does not accept the concept of workers' rights. Stalin did not accept it, Hitler did not accept it, and Saddam Hussein did not accept it. He did not want to see the emergence of independent and viable labor unions that would represent an alternative source of power and influence in society.

Now, we are attempting to bring about a metamorphosis of Iraqi society, which is a generational undertaking. You folks have been in charge of this now for about a year. Has the issue of labor rights, the right to unionize, the right to protect workers, been part of your discussion? Has it been part of your contracting with various contractors? When you deal with Bechtel or when you deal with any of the others, do you discuss workers' rights, do you discuss the right of Iraqi workers to unionize?

MR. LUCKE: Congressman, I think that workers' rights does not precisely fall under any of the USAID contracts for now.

REP. LANTOS: Well, under whom does it fall, since you are the one who signs the contract that gives the money to the contractor? Who else should be --

MR. LUCKE: There are many sources of-there are many implementers of programs. My agency works only with appropriated dollars on contracts. CPA, as an organization, works with ministries for the government, the provisional government of Iraq. There is a Ministry of Labor, and I'm quite sure that CPA, if they were represented here, could tell you about-yes, they are-could tell you about some of those programs that may be implemented with other funds, who do DFI funds or seize assets. But there are no programs that I know of that are being implemented with appropriated funds, and not through AID.

REP. LANTOS: But your testimony, I take it, is that the funds under your-what is the amount of funds under your control.

MR. LUCKE: We have about $3.8 billion that we will eventually-have been promised now under the first supplemental and the second supplemental together.

MR. ZAKHEIM: Congressman, I'm going to turn over to Admiral Dave Nash, who heads the CPA Program Management Office. But before I do, there's another aspect of this that goes beyond contracting, and that is we now have the new administrative, the temporary administrative law, the TAL, as it's called, and that does provide for basic human rights and that is the first step to exactly what you're discussing. But I'd like to have Admiral Nash talk a little about it.

REP. LANTOS: Admiral Nash.

ADM. NASH: Sir, I can't add a lot, but there is-as you mentioned, there is the Ministry of Labor and there is a senior advisor to the Ministry of Labor, and we will get some information back to you. But I understand your question also to be, what are we doing about the contracts that we are letting in. I think the answer is-I'll have to get back to you on that. They're being let just like the contracts are in this country, because all the contracts are being-at least the ones I'm responsible for are being awarded under the federal acquisition regulation.

REP. LANTOS: But our labor laws do not apply in Iraq.

ADM. NASH: That's correct.

REP. LANTOS: So it is the responsibility of CPA to see to it that Iraqi labor is protected.

ADM. NASH: And I will carry that message back, sir.

REP. LANTOS: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.